NATIONAL BOAT RACING ASSOCIATION

I'm wondering how y'all see the 2011 season?

Is everone content with the number of races that were scheduled for 2010?

Would you like to have more?

In what areas would you like to have more? Let me rephrase that, because I know the answer will be "Closer to home." ... So, where do you think the NBRA needs to have more races?

And the big question (drum roll please) would you be willing to pay more to race in order to have more races?

While I only raced one venue this past year, I think the number of races we had was a good one, and fairly well spread out geographically. That part I'm pleased with.

Sponsorship is another problem... I know some clubs have some very good relationships that seem to bring out $3K to $5K for races... very good. Some of the rest of us haven't been so fortunate... so we do need to address how to go about racing in areas where no one wants to put their name on the race.

I'm convinced it will take more "driver dollars" to continue racing. It's much simpler to find good race sites and get their use approved, than it is to get the money to sponsor a race. (Bad as I hate to admit it, APBA races whenever it pleases and pretty much where ever it pleases because it doesn't rely on local dollars to make everything work.)

I've never seen more than 1,000 spectators  at one of  our races (personal experience...maybe some others have) but it's apparent to me, we live in an age where our sport doesn't command much public interest so we'll have to look to ourselves more if we plan to keep racing.

Dan

O-66

I think that you hit the nail on the head Dan, that the teams may have to come up with a little more funding from ourselves to be able to race. 

Mark and I have inquired with a couple of places where races have been run in the past and the answer we have gotten is that the spectators were sparce and wasn't really a finacial improvement for the sites. 

I think that we should pursue this idea with our clubmates and continue to push for a "sponsored" race, but if we could have a couple close to home or within a couple hundred miles the others might be interested in spending a little more cash to get to race.  Personally, I would love it.  I get tired of looking at the boats sitting on their little dollies in the barn!

Melissa

O-49

  I almost made  every  race  last  year, only Quincy I missed  due  to  injury.   I would  like a circuit  program where  we  have  at  least  one  race  in : La, Ark, Mo., Ok., Ks., Illinois, and Texas. If  that  happened  , then  we  have  at least  7 races . Then we  add 2-3 races  more  with whom ever can  add  - such  as usually  the ODA club. Any state that can not  have  a race  can be  picked  up by another state  - but  we  have  no more  total  than 10 races  in  a  season. Plus  no back  to  back  weekends  allowed. 

    By doing  this  we  should  have  10 good  quality races  and  bring  in the  most  boats.  In my opinion, if  we  allow  more  than  10  races  at  this  time  in  our  sport , then  some  of  those  races  will be  boat/driver  poor and we  struggle  to  put on  a  good  show.   This  would  be  a  start ,  if  in  the  future  we  grow in  membership, then  we can  adjust  the  program.  The series program  can  still apply.   All nationals ought  to  be  double  points for  those  only, but  nationals  are  not  included  as  series  races .   This  makes  the  incentives work  both  sides  of  the  fence.

     This  is  just  an  idea to  get  more  talk  -------

               Andy  Seay

One  other  thought  - I also  think  we  should  look into  a  poss  buddy type  thing  - like  with  the  drag  boats  or  other  divisions  in our  sport.  Now , some  of  you  are  going  to  say that  wont  work ,  but  I think  in  the  past  your  right, but today , it  might  work.  Texas club  is  looking  into that  type  of  race  , I believe  in  Ft. Worth .  If we  can  somehow  get  in  front  of  a  big  sponsor  like  Lucas  Oil , then  we  might  start  something  that  grows .   We  wont  ever  know ,  unless  we  keep  trying  .  Drag  boats  comand  a lot  of  spectators  and  in  those  spectators  might  be  one  or  two  new  kneeldown drivers.  again ,  just  another  thought  and  idea.

                    Andy

How many current NBRA races recieve sponsor money or in kind donations?

How did Garnett do financially? I sure thought that was a great race, I loved the tight course.

Can you hold a Stillwater race without sponsor money?

I'm convinced it will take more "driver dollars" to continue racing. It's much simpler to find good race sites and get their use approved, than it is to get the money to sponsor a race. (Bad as I hate to admit it, APBA races whenever it pleases and pretty much where ever it pleases because it doesn't rely on local dollars to make everything work.)

Yeap, I for one would be happy to spend more to race. No, let me rephrase that, you know what I mean... But for me, driving to Illinois 2 or 3 times in a summer is a stretch,

especially after mo. and Kansas, and last year it seems like Illinois was 2 or 3 times in one month. Maybe I'm imagining that.

Kansas was great fun for me, and I if Im not mistaken, Vernon didn't have any sponsors, except for the great auction stuff.

I'm wondering, how much the auction took in, and did that put him over-the-hump?

 Your  right  Mark, but OBRA tried  the  driver supported  races  - 1) we could  not  get  the  number  of  drivers  there  , just  to  even  make  it  at  $125 per  driver.  2) the  $125 reported  entry fee  scared  others  from  comming - even  when  said  the  more drivers  above 10 would  reduce  the  entry  fee.  I for  one  did not  mind , as  I would  have  spent more  than  that going  to  far  away races -  but  why would an ODA driver  come?   3)  on these driver expense  races  that  we  tried , NBRA  lost  money  on  the  refund  deal  -  that  won't  work  if  we  bankrupt  our national organization.

  As I see  it  too,  outside of  the ODA, most  of  the  other clubs  do not  have  enough  helpers  to put  on  more  than two  races , by  the  time  you get  to  the  third one  , you  have  worn out  the  few  workers  you  had.   I woulfd  love  to  not  have  to  drive  so  far for  most  races , but  right  now , untill we  build  up  our  membership  in  this  part  - we  have  no  choice, esp  if  your  chasing  year end  championship points .  OR you can  be  like  some  of our  drivers  and  only hit  the  national races.

 Please read my ideas  above  - might not satisfy you  next 2 -3 years , but  could grow to  where  we  can  pick and  chose  what  races  to  go  to and  know  the  one  we  dont , will have  plenty  of boats.    Another  idea  would  be  one  Bob Mudaugh  started  on a year  ago  - working  with  the  vity  of  Tulsa  and  having  4 -5 races  in one season  at  the same  place  - like  stock car  races . BUT  we  have  to  have  a good showing  - which for any of  this  to  work  would  be true.

I read them Andy and I think they're good ideas. One race per state seems fair, with some pick up races in between, and I'll try to make every one of them.

As far as the driver financed deal is concerned, "I feel your pain" I went to the McAlester race, I understand.

However, McAlester had other problems, I know some people left before racing just because of the pits situation.

But you are right, the idea of $125.00 to race had a lot to do with the turnout I'm sure. Maybe planned a little differently, promoted a little differently, held at a different venue, things may be different.

If for example, the Garnett race would have been short revenue $500-600 before the auction, and with no sponsors,

An additional $25 bucks per day, per driver, assuming 13 drivers would contribute $650.00. That would be only an additional $12.50 each class a guy ran, averaging 2 classes per driver. Some guys run more than two, so it could be even less.

Auctions are great, but you can't count on them for every race. Plus to have one like Vernon's, requires a lot of time from one guy to hit the local community for contributions. I know he was there all week before the race.

When I go to horse shows, cattle are a fixed cost regardless how many people show. So, what people do is require advance registration, so that they know how many people will show, and have the commitment for money in advance...

Just a quick  update , Garnett is seriously considering having a national race at the Cedar Valley Reservoir . I've got the Park Rep. working on sponsorship money .I'm shooting for $ 5,000.00 but that includes all expenses . They see the benefits of having a race there..  I figured that 30 race teams and entourage will dump close to $35,000 in their town over 4 days . . Now add all the spectators money  for 4 days .  It's a no brainer . The last race was totally free to the town .  I am putting the pressure on the town to step up for this event since we put the first race on covering all expenses down to the potties .  WE even put out and recovered all the trash cans .   Anything is possible with the right help . We hope to be going back to Garnett.         I learned that the power of an auction is awesome .  If the auction was advertised (newspaper, radio, ) and we got the whole community involved - some serious money could be raised . Easily $2000.00 ++ could be raised .  To properly do a race several things   must happen ...    Lots of advertising, newspaper , radio, TV, appearences locally -town square ect .    Entertainment for sat night -Band -- DJ ect.    Vendors are a must have and you can charge them $50.00-  $75.00 for the weekend  each .  Generating as many avenues as possible for income is vital . Sat night bbq dinners is another fund raiser .Why not charge  $1.00 for parking . Over a weekend this stuff adds up .    Go toa NASCAR race and see how many times they get in our pocket before you even walk in the track .   Programs, headsets , parking, tee-shirts, hats , seat cushions and the list is endless.  We have a great show , just need multiple ways to fund these events .    Creat an event - Festival - not just a race .   Anything to create interaction with the locals is  a big plus....

well I can tell ya all, I made every NBRA sanction race this year , and there all abit different. I know that raising money for a race is an extremly hard thing to do. but to continue to race as we do we need to continue to seek out the sponsors to put up the funding , or we will have to raise the cost of entry fees ect. there is no getting around that. Combining a race with another group, ie drag boats is a great idea and i m all in on that, holding an event ie a fair or show cars is another great idea,any more it seems  that to attract the specators you need a bigger better deal to get them to come out. but this take an extreme amount of manpower and time to be able to do. Guys all of you have great ideas, and my suggestion to all, is see what it takes in your own part of the world to hold a race and try them out, I dont believe there is any solution to the problem that should be in stone.  if the guys in Texas can get it done with drag boats ,I for one will go. and if Vernon gets it done combined with a fair , I will go. I like to race boats and i like to be with the racers and families of the Nbra, this is why I go, If i just wanted to go fast I could go to the lake and run around out there , I go to see all you guys and support all you guys and gals. so if it costs me a bit more i will still go, and I trully believe this is why you go too, but i do know that raising fees would hurt

I for one did not mind , as I would have spent more than that going to far away races - but why would an ODA driver come?

Andy-

Well, they would come because they may want to race more,...And be willing to pay more to do it.

But, if they have enough races already for the season, then you are right...They wouldn't.

So, it sounds like what you are saying is that there is no desire for ODA drivers to race more, because have plenty of their own races...But OBRA drivers would like to have more and be willing to pay more, but that dog won't hunt, because those "pay to race events" won't get enough ODA drivers to turn out?

Is that the deal?

mdaspit at October 10, 2010 at 8:15 AM

I for one did not mind , as I would have spent more than that going to far away races - but why would an ODA driver come?

 

Andy-

 

Well, they would come because they may want to race more,...And be willing to pay more to do it.

But, if they have enough races already for the season, then you are right...They wouldn't.

 

So, it sounds like what you are saying is that there is no desire for ODA drivers to race more, because have plenty of their own races...But OBRA drivers would like to have more and be willing to pay more, but that dog won't hunt, because those "pay to race events" won't get enough ODA drivers to turn out?

 

Is that the deal?

Throughout this whole thread the talk has been about getting more races and more racers to attend these races. But now the issue has come down to the OBRA drivers are willing to pay higher entry fee's to support the race but the higher fee's will keep the ODA drivers away.No matter OBRA or ODA we are all NBRA and need to work on this together. Whats works for one may not work for the other, but together they can work it out.

 Well first , I hope  I did not  come  across as  being  any  us  against  them  type  of  thing.  Iam  just saying  that if ODA club has  plenty  of  good  races  close  to  home, it  is  hard  to  get  them  to  make  the  long  drive  - just  as  I believe  Iam the  only Okie that  made  most  of  the  long  drive  up  there .  The main  reason  we  had  a  good  turnout  at  Texas  was  mostly  due  to  the  fact  that Stillwater  was  cancelled.  Most  of  the  guys  up  north  were  not  going  to  come  to both.  This  is  not  saying  they  or  we  dont  support  one  another , it  is  just  a  fact  on how  personal  expenses  allow  each  person  to  do  what  they  can  and the  distance does  take  a  toll  on  one   since  most  of  us  have  to  be at  work  on monday.

 OBRA, Arkansas, Kansas , Texas  and La. has  to  somehow  increase their membership as that  helps with driver  count  and  with  how  much  help you  have  when  putting  on  a  race.   To help get  the  support  for  more  races, is  one  reason for  my  idea on the  10 race  season and  the  race  sites  spread out.   For  ODA, which  is  the  strongest  club,  it  will still work out  for  them on amount  of  races  they  like  to  put  on.  ODA  puts on good  "quality"  races  and  they  are  successful races  - outside  of - lol - Havanna.  Iam  hopping  that down  here  we  work  on  1-2 good  quality  races  and  not  try  for  5-6 races  ,  just to be  putting  on  races .  

 Again , I agree  we  are  all NBRA , and  I for  one  have  shown I feel  that  way  by making all  the  races  I can , no matter  where  they  are.  Iam just  trying  to  put  some  ideas forward  so  maybe  others  will  speak up  likewise  and  we  can  get into  a  growth  pattern  of  some  kind.   This  is  a  neat  and  unique sport and  we  should  do  our  best  to  keep it  from  fading  away  - even  the people  in our  sport  are  all special  and I would  hate to lose  that  for  sure.

Ahh jeez... no Andy you didn't say anything that was suggesting us vs them. It is just the idea that if ODA drivers have plenty of races to go to, why would they want to go to one that charges much higher fees...Right?

What I am saying is- does ODA have plenty of races? Would ODA drivers like to go to more? Are they happy with the number of races that they currently have? If not, maybe they would be interested in going to a race or two in Oklahoma, that costa a little mo to dance?

See if you do that, it will continue to get races into areas that are not used to having them. Exposing places that (used to have races in the day), to racing again.

There was a darn good turnout of spectators at McAlester... Accually more spectators than drivers.

Remember those ol boys in Garnett, that brought out the old runabout? Man those guys were stoked to have an NBRA race back in Garnett again. Plus, they made some great donations to the auction.

In fact, the wife of one of them was a retired judge from the area if I rember right...Right? Remember? she's the one that Matt Johnson took out for a ride in the Super E! Matt asked her how fast she wanted to go, and she said  something like "Don't hold anything back sonny boy"." The local paper came out and took pictures and did an article.

Maybe NBRA should have a "Developing Markets Strategy" doesn't have to be money, but maybe there is something to reward drivers for coming to a race that has higher fees. Like points and a half or something, something that can incentivize a race that doesn't cost a dime.

Maybe something like that, sort of a points subsidy for a couple of years to allow the local club to gather evidence that can show the local community the economic impact that we can make. Then you can go to them and say (Like Vernon said) hey, we've been here for a couple of years now, and we are dropping x number of $$$

at your motels, restaurants, gas stations, ambulance service...

We could do it in Oklahoma, Arkansas, anywhere you think you can develop a market, that is not that far from the core ODA group.

I really like Mark's idea of having some sort of incentive, say points, for the other teams to travel to a venue down this way.  We are all one team under NBRA, and I think that our clubmates will help us because they know that we love to race as much as they do.  And I think until some of the not so strong clubs, like OBRA, can become strong again this type of conversation including all our NBRA teammates is a great thing.  More heads are better than one.  And we, with the help of all, might be able to figure out something to get us back on the road to being strong again.

Kampen Racing was at all but one race this season, so was Alan Owens & David  & Richard  Baze. The Mcafees traveled to most of the out of town races. The ODA members will travel even though there was not much in the way of compensation ie, travel and tow money. Always looking for competition a good place to race and the good times that go with racing.

Art

There are alot of factors when it comes to going to other races....The biggest one is getting time off work to do the travel....then comes the expense of travel....then comes the race fees. Many of us have to work and can't just get off on any day we want, and then as I said expense of travel, eating, hotel, race fees etc. So I know we are not the only team that has to pick and choose what races we attend....it has nothing to do with who is having it....it is do we have the money and time to go to that race or this race. I would love to attend every race unfortunetly that is not possible, as I know it is not with others.

cgoehl at October 10, 2010 at 11:49 PM

There are alot of factors when it comes to going to other races....The biggest one is getting time off work to do the travel....then comes the expense of travel....then comes the race fees. Many of us have to work and can't just get off on any day we want, and then as I said expense of travel, eating, hotel, race fees etc. So I know we are not the only team that has to pick and choose what races we attend....it has nothing to do with who is having it....it is do we have the money and time to go to that race or this race. I would love to attend every race unfortunetly that is not possible, as I know it is not with others.

I was just going to post about the same thing. Money and work is the two biggest factors on who will make a race. We all want to race or we wouldn't be in the sport so wanting to is not the issue. This is just a quick list of what a weekend of racing can cost.

If the race is further than 600 miles you will probably need to take off at least 1 day of work.  -----------------$120.00

Gas for travel.  1200 miles at 14 miles per gallon.--------------------------------------------------------------------------$275.00

Gas for boat. 15 gallon at $4.50 a gallon.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$67.50

Oil for motor 1 gallon at $20..00---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$20.00

Motel rooms for 2 nights.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$130.00

Entry fee for 3 classes----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 60.00

Total---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$672.50

 I probably have missed a few items but as you can see unless there is something to off set some of the cost it adds up to quite a bit of money. What can be done about it I don't know, that is why people have to pick and choose there race sites. And talking about race sites a good race site means a lot. Any time you have a lake with pleasure boat traffic you are going to have a problem and Im with you Joe our Havanna race needs to be taken off the schedule.

Larry Mac

Good stuff showing up here. Particularly the calls for a united front in our planning and discussions (vs. "us" - "them").

What we have is a concentration of racers in the ODA geographic area, which makes it possible to work closely together for somewhat local races, and a brand new Texas club, a fairly ragged, at the moment, Oklahoma Club and Pelican which has been good for a solid showing at Alex.

Part of the solution may be in somehow combining efforts in the OK/ARK/TEX area to keep from being spread so thinly. There just aren't enough drivers yet in those three states to make a critical mass.

All things to consider at state club meetings and the national meeting in Fayetteville.

Dan